A prize-winning image?

reply...

Still wrong

mmmmm.........

A poor rational for a poor image.......

Will I still be looking at it 100 years from now?

Does this photo have the potential to last? I don't know. Right now I find it intriguing because I don't understand it. But will I slowly lose interest in it? I think so. Perhaps this photo is better as a portfolio? I think so - then I would have understood the right context to place this photo in and make sense of it.

erm...

with the same argument you can justify any image taken by any camera. Where's the challenge?

Pseuds Corner

Pure unadulterated crap!

Abstaracted formal qualities

That hole you,re digging is getting deeper by the minute.
You can drone on about abstracted formal qualities, colour and textual relationships, all you like, the fact is that anyone with a camera could have taken that picture, The fact that this was even chosen says more about the BJP than the picture says about , well, anything really.

...Yes

Brilliant, I love it... and especially because of the last paragraph, I agree that "Good photography should challenge, otherwise it could so easily be ignored." I think this is so important for photography today and irrelevant to whether you like the image or not I think this photo certainly achieves this.

That's the problem with contests

Art is a very subjective thing and even the most expert opinion is just that. Many photo competitions use ONE judge, which further invalidates the concept. I personally think these contests are a money-making racket designed to further enrich the players in the system that already hold too much of the power.

What's right and what's wrong?

Without seeing what the shortlists are, its difficult to make a judgment as to whether this is the best image to be awarded the top prize. Is this what contemporary photography means? ie. the banality of imagery. That the judges have to justify their choice and define what good photography means?

Yes but no

While there's merit to some of Nick Galvins comments, fact is that for me the image just isn't strong enough to score a big hit on it's own; it may work within a wider set but will still be weak. I've never really bought the "because it hasn't been done before" argument; inevitably many images have a resemblance to others that have gone before (with or without the photographers knowledge), but that doesn't necessarily invalidate them as good or even great images. Equally, just because something hasn't been done doesn't necessarily mean it should be. Many of the images in this months "art" issue strike me as distinctly dull and mechanical, as, shorn of context, does this image as a competition winner.

Emperor's New Clothes

Perhaps because we are meant to want to like it.. to be with the Professional In crowd. I don't get.

Oh really...

I wonder why I've not seen similar pictures from Cartier-Bresson, Avedon, even David Bailey, etc., etc?

IMHO, a good picture immediately grabs your attention - and holds it. You can marvel at clever use of repeated patterns and the design involved, etc.

I can't see anything of real merit in the winning pic. And I don't think paragraphs of waffle, a typical 'art' academic's response, is going to turn a poor picture into a good one...

Ask the wrong question, and you'll get a stupid answer

This is why photography contests, in general, are quite stupid. The judgements that matter are totally subjective. On the one hand you get judges who get their jollies from picking bland and impenetrable pictures and on the other, literalist morons (see this comment thread) who can understand postcard shots but not much more. In the end, no one comes out ahead.

Did Nick Galvin really look at the photo??

He writes: "a man who was using a bag of bread to shield his face as he slept."

This is not the case. He is lying on his left shoulder and his face is looking away from the camera.

On the other hand I think I begin to like the photo. It would have been even better if we didn't know what is was about and still gotten this award. I like awkward photos (which anyone can take). Not all of them have the intriguing qualities of this one. I don't care how of by whom a photo was taken. If it was easy or hard. If the person was a Magnum photographer of my next door neighbor with his $100 compact. i don't care if it doesn't fit the rules or the current photographic style.

Hmm

Hmm, I don't know what to think of this picture, it doesn't really strike me to be honest, and you can say that it's out of context without the rest of the set, but correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a single image award? It shouldn't need the rest of the series to make it work.

Derivative?

"Whilst most were technically proficient, and many were good photographs, many were derivative with familiar subjects; they simply looked like other peoples work."

And, unfortunately, so does this. Put it in the context of Paul Graham's work 'shimmer of possibility' and it wouldn't look out of place. Same subject, similar palette. Not to knock Michelle Sank - I like her other work which is, in a lot of ways, less derivative than this. Perhaps the judges were trying just a bit too hard and the winning image says more about them than the photographer.

Photos should challenge?

So, if I understand correctly this is a winning photo because it has no qualities that attract people to look at it. It challenges the viewer to find some reason to like it enough to take the time to look at it. It offers so little in terms of information that it challenges the viewer to figure out why the photographer took the shot or if she simply hit the button by mistake.

Whatever happened to the concept that images communicate, "a picture is worth a thousand words" and all that? I guess photography is devalued in the current recession and it is now only worth a few letters, not even a whole word.

Whatever next ...

Oh dearie me - why don't the judges just admit it - they was pissed, wore blindfolds, and used darts.

100%

A agree 100% with the judges' choice, and the rancor and cry that it has inspired only reinforces the notion that photography runs the risk of becoming predictable and uninspiring if those that still worship at the altar of HCB have their way.

HCB, as brilliant as a photographer that he was, is dead. Much of his most iconic work is decades old; it's time for new voices.

The emperor's new clothes

It is so obvious really, a crap image, justified by pseudo art talk. A classic case of the emperor's new clothes, only here just about everyone can see that there is nothing there!

Here Lies Photography...

The man is not sleeping, he is dead.

He is Photography.

You killed it.

Bring back some real photography

oh very dear, how sad that you think this is even worth looking at.

as Paul commented earlier,

"There was a time.....
...... when Jon Tarrant, Chris Dickie Geoffrey Crawley et al edited this magazine when it was the journal of record and when the opinions published really mattered. There was a time when it looked good, was authoritative and worth buying every week. For that matter it was available every week!"

...and you guys seem to have been doing whatever you can to make this magazine into what this dull little picture represents: And now, the final kicking for a magazine that was once a dignified informative read - well done everyone, I hope you're pleased with yourselves because you have finally lost another loyal reader of 25 years standing.

TOP TIP: Bring back some real photography we can admire, and you may just gain some readers, cos this nonsense really isn't going to increase your readership - so long, and may you sink without trace quite soon

This essay tells me two things...

First, let me say that I agree in the abstract with most of what the assay says. But...

First, when you say the man has used a loaf of bread to "shield his face", you're telling me you haven't bothered to look very closely at the picture. Unless his neck is broken, his face is on the other side of his head from that loaf of bread. To me, this calls your other, more subjective, observations into question.

Second, whey say that photos should schallenge us, i agree wholeheartedly. I know where you're coming from regarding all those technically excellent, aesthetically slick photos which look like nothing so much as other technically eccellent, aesthetically slick photos.

But here's the rub: the *photo* should challenge the viewer. This one doesn't, not me anyway. What is challenging about it is the fact that it won the contest, not anything intrinsic to the picture. It is the judges who've intervened to challenge us on photography's behalf.

The best photos do not need that kind of charity.

Having said that, let me also add that I kind of like the photo, though not as much as some of the photographer's other photos i've seen. And i appreciate the difficulty of trying to judge a contest like this. So I am not so much second-guessing the decision as making those two observations about it, which do seem to add up to an indication that there is much more to be said.

A letter to a friend

Ah that bjp photo. The _defense_ of this image, you could almost say the same thing about the shutter firing when you drop your camera. It challenged me to figure things out, but only because I, perhaps foolishly, decided to take up the challenge. It's a simple image and nicely presented with low contrast and muted colours. It made me think of some of Stephen Shores' work, some of which I don't get either.

The comments [by Nick] are somewhat of an insult to the other photos submitted and maybe they deserve it, perhaps that's the point. It says a lot more about the other photos than about the subject itself. Perhaps the subject is not a man sleeping on the grass, or the bread, but it is about photography and such a mundane [photo] represents itself as a photo and not the subject. Nick Galvin condemns the other submissions. He says, "Whilst most were technically proficient, and many were good photographs, many were derivative with familiar subjects; they simply looked like other peoples work. This is a problem.". I'd be inclined to accept the photo as a winner on that basis alone.

The Golden rule

Just like any other form of art, if it needs several paragraphs to explain what it is and why it's art then it's usually rubbish.
I've been to many photojournalist exhibitions over the years and the best only have the briefest of details accompanying them.
If I see a sheet of A4 with loads of text then you can usually save valuable moments of your life and walk on by.

Cynical

The controversy around this one image (which in my very humble opinion does not deserve "snapshot" status) has achieved an important goal for the BJP very nicely.
The "arts" are not immune the huge financial cutbacks being made over here. In light of this every institution, be it art, medical, security, social etc are scrambling for publicity to justify their continued existence & continued govt. funding. This singularly poor image chosen as a winner has created more publicity for the BJP than any carefully constructed prospectus could have.
Thanks to this image, their position as perceived overseers & protectors of our “artistic innovation & freedom” gets enhanced & they’ll get a sizeable chunk of funding again from both public & private sectors with which to further little other than delusions of grandeur.

Pillow Talk

That bag of bread is begging to be used as a pillow. Begging. ANYWAY, my camera phone took a photo accidentally in my pocket. So, look out, I think I could be in for the win next year...

Pillow Talk

That bag of bread is begging to be used as a pillow. Begging. ANYWAY, my camera phone took a photo accidentally in my pocket. So, look out, I think I could be in for the win next year...

I'm afraid not.

I am sorry but as some of the others have said the artsy arguments that could turn this picture into something worth of a prize could be applied to any other similar pictures, i.e. all of them should be awarded a prize.
Not mentioning the banality of the poverty, social alienation themes. I am a bit bored of photographers who make money taking pictures of poor or oppressed people and then make money out of them. In this case, the poor guy was sleeping. Model release form, anyone?
On top of that, it is a bad picture, no need to discuss much further.

boring and offensive

Taking photos of beggars, down and outs etc from behind or while they are asleep is really the lowest of the low. "What did you give him? I gave him 1/250th at f8".

it's already a cliche!

I think this image is like countless other contemporary photos that win competitions, to me it has nothing new to say at all, contemporary photography like this has already become a cliche that is very easy to produce without any great photographic skill. Having said that, I like it.

Quote for the day

In the words of Andy Warhol:-

"If you don't think about it, it's right. As soon as you have to decide and choose, it's wrong. And the more you decide about, the more wrong it gets"

Interesting to hear what Nick's ORIGINAL instinct was. Enough said.

how indefensible is this

This article seemed like it was written inside Fort Knox. A good photo doesn't need explanations. If it doesn't convey the message, it doesn't work for me.

who cares

If it won,,, it won,, so what,,,, you aint gonna change jack,,,, all it does it open up a vipers nest ,,,and generate meaningless waffle... that was said about the image in the first place,,, a loaf of bread,and a bloke asleep,,, mmmm,, time for a spliff,, so I can make sense of it all,,,,,,

An impossible set up

When one look at the way the subject is lying it is virtually impossible for him to twist his neck in such a way as to "shield his face with the bread" he is rather lying with the back of his head turned towards the bread. It also depends from which cultural perspective you look at this picture. In African context the interpretation would be very different from that of a Euro-centric point of view. I think a desperate attempt to look for art where there is none..........

Prize winner?

Loads of waffle to justify an average snap. You should see some of the 'prize winners' my 5yr old takes!

losing touch with readers

I can think of few better arguments for packing in the BJP than this picture. It illustrates just how out of the touch the magazine has become with its readers. At a time when earning a living from photography has never been harder, the publishers have retreated into navel gazing and an Arts Council style ivory tower. Get real BJP. Have you no idea who your readers are ?

wrong

Just admit it the picture is rubbish

I see this differently

I believe this is obviously a man that has set up a trap to ensnare theives. When you reach in and try to steal his bread he suddenly grabs you saying, "I am a police officer, and you sir/madam are under arrest. "
Or, more logically perhaps the mans wife sent him off to the store to buy bread, and he returned with white bread instead of the organic wheat bread she requested, and in a scolding tone which wife's sometimes use she said to him, "Martin, get out of my sight this instant." So now he is taking a nap on a golf course and a very, very lucky photographer spotted this. This is the way I interpret this photograph which is quite different than the person at Magnum. Perhaps I could work at Magnum someday? Man, wouldn't that be something.

I see this differently

I believe this is obviously a man that has set up a trap to ensnare theives. When you reach in and try to steal his bread he suddenly grabs you saying, "I am a police officer, and you sir/madam are under arrest. "
Or, more logically perhaps the mans wife sent him off to the store to buy bread, and he returned with white bread instead of the organic wheat bread she requested, and in a scolding tone which wife's sometimes use she said to him, "Martin, get out of my sight this instant." So now he is taking a nap on a golf course and a very, very lucky photographer spotted this. This is the way I interpret this photograph which is quite different than the person at Magnum. Perhaps I could work at Magnum someday? Man, wouldn't that be something.

That won an award!

Someone's having a laugh!...right?

What?

It looks more like a photo you'd ask a friend to remove from his Facebook page because you didn't want someone to see how drunk you were the night before. It's a snapshot with no storytelling, no emotion, poor style,indifferent content and an embarrassment to the judges. Only they can't ask their friend to remove it from their Facebook page.

A prize-winning image?

The title of this article: "A prize-winning image?" No. Thank you for asking.

WOW, just WOW

Was on camera flashed used in this photo? it doesnt strike you to like it. it strikes you to say that its a crap picture that any sap with any camera could have taken.

If this is all it takes to win awards, I should be a billionaire by now.

Appalled.

What appalls me the most about this image is not that it was freakishly selected by the judges, but that the photographer actually sent this in thinking it was a good photograph. It is this demeaning artistic value that photographers are finding it more and more difficult to earn a living. Seeing things like this makes me embarrassed to say I am a photographer. It used to mean something.

Aikona baba (no way)

I'm from Durban but share is no pride in seen this image win. The image lacks context (where is some hint of Durban's the golden mile or Mose Mabhida stadium). It also fails to impart an emotional impetus.
There is so much wrong and right in SA and the photographer could not play on the contrast.
Was snapper trying to tell the tale of how the city forces the homeless off the streets when the tourist flock in, or the growing gap of rich and poor. Million South Africans live under the poverty line of $2 a day, some studies suggest nearly three quarters of our population.

Good Photography?

There is no such thing as good photography..

Bad very bad

The person or persons who said this is worthy of an award ,are wrong regardless of their background.This is what is called a "snap shot" which any 5 year old can do with any point & shoot camera.This is to show how low standards are for photography has become. Ezekiel

Riiiightttt....

When you think about it, there's a lot of wank in the world isn't there?

Great news, Nick!

I think there has been a lot of unreasonable criticism of Nick and his defence of this prize-winning photo. Don't worry, Nick - I understand where you're coming from! In fact, I know you'd be interested to find that there's a site called Flickr where there are thousands of photos almost as good as this one! Apart from the obvious groups like "Blokes in Parks Sleeping near Loaves of Bread" where there are quite a few shots a bit similar to this (but not as good - obviously!) there are lots of groups that I know you'd love - try one of my favourites "Cats! Cats! Cats!".

What the eff?

And I am usually open to contemporary ideas about art. But really?! I wish there was a nice way to respond to this.

If this is what's happening to photography, pro photographers can kiss any hopes of making a living goodbye.

Interesting but not great

Well, I think the pic is interesting but not great. And btw, nobody noticed it needs a lot of color balance??

Good Photography

I think most of you should take some time to think about your own conditioned tastes and re-think your attitudes to photography and what you're getting from it - It seems that most of you are concerned with the aesthetic over content and are not looking to be challenged

As Nick Galvin said:

"those looking looking for the romantic ideal of a muscular photojournalism are unlikely to find it rewarding. "

Michelle Sank is my tutor at University and I respect her a lot - I think her work is fantastic and i think a lot of the comments on here are rude, non-informed, non-intelligent remarks that just echo the regurgitated, crowded and conforming world of photography today.

Why are you all so narrow minded!?

All of you blurting out these negativities have completely missed the point I believe. The reason why we can't tell if this person is a tramp, junkie or drunk is to maintain its ambiguity and keep the mind pondering.

As Smyth states it's surreal and disturbing, two factors that are so evident in this photograph and make it all the more poignant. The loaf of bread to could connote to a number of things, a pillow(the way its positioned near the head) or sustenance, two factors that the poor often have difficulty maintaining.

The shift of subtle dirty grey mid-tones make this photograph all the more mundane in a sense but again it becomes put into context and reflects this kind of life associated with the poor. I also think it's perfectly juxtaposed with his hand, a small fragment of the photograph that almost shimmers due to the photographs coherent unsaturated aesthetic.

Also people saying 'i could have taken that' have completely missed the point. Photography in general always has this realist tendency that it shall never escape from, learning how to use that to create powerful work from the supposedly mundane is far more skilful that learning how to frame. It is far from cliché. If its a question of skill regarding framing and technique why don't you all go and paint a picture instead.

Trying too hard :(

Quote
"Whilst most were technically proficient, and many were good photographs, many were derivative with familiar subjects; they simply looked like other peoples work."
And, unfortunately, so does this. Put it in the context of Paul Graham's work 'shimmer of possibility' and it wouldn't look out of place. Same subject, similar palette. Not to knock Michelle Sank - I like her other work which is, in a lot of ways, less derivative than this. Perhaps the judges were trying just a bit too hard and the winning image says more about them than the photographer.
Posted by: Tony on 27 Oct 2010 at 16:55"

I also am a fan of Sank’s portriture, although I agree with Tony that this work has strong comparisons to ‘shimmer of possibility’

Aesthetically comparable, well framed even, not much other technique required! Although where Paul Graham will work with a loose but powerful intellectual concept, this image is not a staged tableaux nor constructed with concept or consciousness, thus it is an intuitive snap shot, good & challenging yes, but not amazing. Rather than open any narrative to me it tells a story of an institutionalized art school system in the UK, where work is transcribed by lack of grounding, in which you take image - any image, then 2nd construct an elaborate statement of intent - shooting with out aiming if you like. The industry recognizes this, causing so little British graduate success.

FYI Looks like a white loaf of Albany, not a cheap bread here in SA!

oozlum birds delight

How does an image such as this win a contest? What kind of arty farty myopic ghetto is photography getting dragged into? Sad.

Save photography from 'Art'

The photograph is at best, mediocre, and certainly unable to stand alone. The words attempting to justify its selection are pretentious and embarrassingly bad. They would not be misplaced in a first year art school project.

Who will save Photography from the ‘Art World’.

Hmmm

Still doesn't detract from the fact that it's a crap picture. Arty farty nonsense.

Give me strength

What a lot of preposterous academic waffle ... it's just an opportunist snap, badly composed, dull lighting, you've got to wonder if Michelle Sank was having a laugh at the judges expense even bothering to enter it for competition. I would have more respect for the pic if she'd bothered to wake the bloke up and ask permission first.

What can you do with it?

What can you use this snap for, a bread advert, a greetings card? a travel feature? It has no commercial use and that is the rub, it has no use other than as a good, bad example.

You mean there were worse pictures than this one?

We escaped from beauty long, long ago. I'm afraid it's so far away now that's impossible to get to it. We don't need shock anymore. Do you know what's really challenging these days? Producing beautiful images.
I can't think of a more derivative photograph than this one. There's probably at least one like this one in every family's photo album.

first impression

Your first impression was correct. This is not worth a second glance.

its a small world

when i was in cape town you see these men everywhere in the parks laying on the ground...go to my website craigcameronolsen.com and go to travel
section and look at cape town folder ..you will
see what im talking about ...

Are all these comments something the BJP should learn from?

Nearly all these comments are either anti or scathing with the odd deluded, starry eyed comment from a student. At the same time as this furore we learn of the death of Geoffrey Crawley and for me (and possibly lots of others) these two events emphasis yet again how far the BJP and its editorial bias to 'art' photography is moving away from what mainstream professional photograpy is about.

BJP and its editorial staff should learn from the range of photography Crawley and his team featured and move away somewhat from their over use of art photography which is so obviously leading to dissatisfaction from its readers to say nothing of the ridicule heaped on the hogwash cum critiques from you Art College and related academics/judges.

Wake up BJP, Professional Photography ain't about this kind of photography.Give us all a chance. After all there's more 'GP' photographers out there than art house fanatics and academics.

If you don't you might not be around in the future.

Unobservant.

"...the fact the photographer took a picture of a man who was using a bag of bread to shield his face as he slept."

It seems fairly obvious that Nick Galvin barely even looked at this image. The man in the photo isn't shielding is face ... his head is turned the opposite direction from the bag. Just look at his pants and leg positioning, there's no way his face could be turned towards the bag.

Ridiculous.

i like it

yes its flat and a bit boring, but i guess this guys life is a bit like that. what i like about it is it lacks pretentiousness, it is real, i can relate to it directly.

and i like it has upset so many of you, and for those who say they will forget this image, i won't, because of the controversy it has caused. good choice for the win i say.

"Photo reportages need context"

Reference to an article on your front page today entitled "photo reportages need context".

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/interview/1731354/william-klein-photo-reportages-context

I have nothing against "challenging" photography. Far from it, I think challenging photographs holds immense value. But at the end of the day to be great a picture, it has to have "depth" and aesthetic excellence. Not one or the other, BOTH.

The problem with saying that the value of this image is that it is challenging is that you can use this argument about pretty much any one of the billions of snapshots out there today. In essence it is downvaluing the art of good photography by applying a justification that could be used on pretty much any photograph.

This picture doesn't do it for me. Compositionally it is poor. There are the inclings of a story from it, but with reference to the context quote above, I can't get any meaning out of it without reading the description. As photographers our communication medium is visual. Although the paragraph is relevant to a picture, I should be able to get at least something out of it without having to read, and I'm afraid I can't do that here.

The subject matter is of value from a journalistic viewpoint, but the picture doesn't communicate what was going on, very well.

Bad image for photography

It's this kind of image - and the author's rationale behind it - that pushes photography further away from those it should be trying to attract.

If even the photo enthusiasts struggle to come to terms with it, what chance has everyone else got?

I actively try to promote photography through easily read images. I try to pull the non-photo fan closer to the art end of the industry.

Images like Sank's make me this an even harder job. Cursory photo viewers will not attend their first exhibition or buy a photo product after seeing this image.

The Cosmo-Slotnick Building?

Is Michelle Sank really the Howard Roark of modern photography? And, if so, what does this say about those who criticise the judges' decision? Or, does she represent another Randian character? Peter Keating, perhaps? Or Lois Cook?

I Wonder...

I wonder what the guy in the photo would say about this. After all, he is the one we are all talking about. Would he say 'Spot on, I went out today to get my picture taken by putting a loaf of bread behind my head and lying down in a field?' Would he say 'this is a self portrait and everything was set up to intrigue and challenge the viewer?' Would he think the fact that this picture had won an award was somewhat ridiculous given the mundane nature of the picture - and in all likelihood - his day? I think the latter and would bet he couldn't even remember the day it was took from any other, which in my opinion is where this picture belongs.

correction

The comment here that justifies the choice of this photo as a winner is certainly interesting but I notice one observation is incorrect ... the prone figure is not shielding his face with a loaf of bread since it is behind his head just above his neck !! Hence, one can not help but question the reasoning as woolly and self justifying rather than actual !